Crazy Rich Asians meets Keeping Up with the Kardashians
On the big screen, the stars of Netflix-hit, Bling Empire, seem larger than life. I was fortunate enough to see the more human side to executive producer Kelly Mi Li, who also stars in the show.
From living with walls full of rats, to becoming a successful entrepreneur and Hollywood producer, and having $168 million confiscated by her ex-husband in their divorce, Kelly has gone through a lot. She might be known in public by her extravagant personality on-screen, but her lesser-known journey has been one defined by perseverance and hustle. I have been a fan of Kelly for a while, and this is the first time I got to hear about her come-up story.
Kelly has been a very vocal leader for the Asian community, and I find her especially inspiring as an Asian-American creator myself. In this episode, we discuss the purpose of our work, and what it means to pave the way for others and be inspired by those who came before us. You’ll also hear advice on how to learn to be alone with yourself, and cutting your burn rate to make better financial decisions.
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AUDIO
Justin: [00:00:05] What's up guys, this is Justin Kan. You are listening to my podcast The Quest, where I talk about the ups and downs of trailblazers around me, their human stories and all shit they have gone through before and after finding success.
This is the third guest of our April series to celebrate Asian icons. You've probably seen what's going on in the news recently. There has been a terrible uptick in attacks against Asian elders, and this is something we really need to bring awareness to.
So for this month, we will be highlighting members of the Asian American community on this podcast. If you want to help, you can donate via the link in the show notes. We will get through this together.
Today my guest is Kelly Mi Li. Kelly is the star and executive producer of the Netflix reality show Bling Empire. If you haven't watched it, it is entertaining as hell - it's like Crazy Rich Asian meets the Keeping Up with the Kardashians, and right now it's one of the most popular shows on Netflix!
Kelly: [00:01:06] You know, Hollywood’s still a business, you know, and at the end of the day it's always like, well, if I put an all Asian cast, am I really going to make my money back? Or there's no real Asian actors who is bankable in foreign sales, blah, blah, blah. But we're also showing because of the success of these projects, we're showing Hollywood that Asians are, a business - you invest in us. We can make money. We have power. We have community. So I think all these projects are really great. And then again, hopefully with, Bling Empire, it's just another genre to open more doors and just pave the way for another all Asian cast.
Justin: [00:01:48] I'm a huge fan of Kelly. And this was really the first time we got to sit down and talk. She went through her story from growing up with a single mom, in America as an immigrant to getting married in a whirlwind romance and then finding out her ex-husband or current husband at the time was a con and getting $150 million confiscated by the federal government. And then all the way to becoming a tech and media executive at a successful production company Kelly's been a vocal leader in the Asian American community in Hollywood. And I found her work in the media space to be pretty inspiring. And if you want to break into Hollywood, this is definitely an episode you should check out and a story you should hear. So here is Kelly.
Justin: [00:02:24] Cool. Well, Kelly, thanks so much for joining me on The Quest.
Kelly: [00:02:27] Thank you so much Justin I'm so excited to be here.
Justin: [00:02:30] Awesome. Uh, well, we usually start by diving into, um, people's origin stories and like where they came from. So, you know, Myra said you grew up in China, is that right? And then came to the U.S?
Kelly: [00:02:41] Yeah. I grew up in China. I was born in a town called Kunming. So Kunming is a smaller town, so it's not as big as, uh, Shanghai and Beijing. It's also called the spring city. Cause all year round, the weather is just kind of like LA. Um, I moved here when I was about nine and a half, 10 years old. My mom wanted me to have a better, better education.
She was doing anti-cancer research at UIC. Um, my whole family are in the medical field. When my dad and I came out here, you know, my mom was working two other side jobs. And in addition to doing research, she was working at restaurants and, you know, uh, cleaning. And then my dad had, uh, uh, picked like carpet cleaning jobs.
Like he didn't have a visa. So as I remember, he was making $40 a night for cleaning one carpet, you know, and after, and we lived our first apartment was about $250 a month. And I still remember to this day, I hate the noise of rats because when I was sleeping at nighttime, there was like rats in the walls.
And then it just freaked me out so much. Um, so to this day, rats are like my least favorite. animal So I will not go on like Fear Factor if there's rats involved, um, and, uh, you know, after a year my dad kind of just, you know, as a man, he had a lot of ego. He didn't want to really stay here any longerand he went back to China. So my mom and I stayed in the U.S I think that was a huge turning point in my life where, you know, before people would always asked, what's the one thing you regret. And I always said, I wish I told my dad just to stay in the U.S with us, but, you know, growing up in the Chinese culture, you tend to not talk too much.
You kind of let the adult talk, let the adult make the decision. As a kid, we didn't really have a voice. Right. So I was always brought up not to have a voice in that sense. So that was always kind of one of my turning points. And then, you know, for a long time, I really, I really didn't realize, you know, why my dad left, but you know, now that I'm a little bit older, I was like, he wasn't strong enough.
He wasn't man enough to stay with my mom and I, and struggle it out. Um, and then, um, afterwards my mom kind of worked herself up. She's at my mom's a super woman, you know, she couldn't be a doctor anymore cause she had to go through the whole residency all over again and she had nobody to support us.
Right. So I wish my dad time, like, Hey, you know what, go do your residency all over again. Let me work odd jobs and we'll make it work, you know, but he wasn't strong enough for that. And, um, My mom got into the finance business and, uh, she did really well, and, um, she, we ended up moving to a suburb called Hinsdale afterwards, so I can be in a better school system.
Um, so yeah, my first school, when I was fourth grade, was all Hispanic. I was like probably one of the only two Asian people in the school. And then the middle school when was mostly blacks. And then my, my high school was. Mostly like 97%, not just, not just white, Caucasian, but blonde.
Everybody had blonde hair and tan, you know, so I was thrown into very different situations. I think that's also why I'm able to connect with a different, you know, it doesn't matter the race, age I'm able to connect with a lot of people. Um, and then after graduating school, I, uh, that was in Chicago. When I was 18, I got my life insurance license as soon as I turned 18.
So I started working for New York life insurance license. I've always been a hustler. Like since I was 12 years old, I was babysitting. I don't think I asked my mom really for money, like for allowance. I was like 12. I started babysitting. And then when I was like 15, I started working at restaurants. And, you know, when I was young, when I wasunderage to be honest, I was working at nightclubs. I was doing hosting. I was doing bottle service and bartending started managing. So it's, it's, it's definitely like a hustle mentality and just, you know, make it work. And I moved out to LA when I was 21 and then, uh, was in food and beverage for, I also put a beverage from when I was pretty much 16, 15, all the way til, uh, 25, 26.
I ended up buying my own restaurant at Sunset ,started one of the first speakeasy places. Uh, it was Jim Morrison's old apartment. We call it the Morrison Room. It was a fun experience, but I just got burnt out from the restaurant business and, um, yeah, that's kinda, I'm sorry, I don't know how far I should gone with a starting off.
Justin: [00:06:33] that was amazing. I love that. So it sounds like your mom, just to go back to your mom, it sounds like, it sounds like she really sacrificed for you, which is.
Kelly: [00:06:41] She did
Justin: [00:06:42] incredible. Um,
Kelly: [00:06:44] she? Yeah. She sacrificed everything. Cause even, you know, even when you know, my, my dad left when they got divorced, I was like, you know, she, she should, I mean, I want her to find happiness. I wanted to find her love, but at the same time, you know, she only, I only remember she dated one guy and then that guy's son liked me.
And I was like 16. My mom was like, Nope, like it just broke up. So she never remarried. She never, I, to this day, I don't even know about any love interests really had, you know, just cause if she wants to meet up being in a safe environment and, and, um, you know, happy environment.
Justin: [00:07:13] that's, that's incredible. Did she want you to do anything specific with your career? Like what did she think when you were out there hustling and all of that.
Kelly: [00:07:21] Yeah, she didn't get at all. She would just like, you know, with the, with the Asian parents is like, you know, you have doctor, a lawyer or accountant or engineer at a big spot. Right. So for my family was always, I was, they thought I was going to follow the footstep, but become in the medical field and be a doctor.
But it just wasn't me. I didn't click with me in school. I was never, I was an okay student, but I was never really that great student. Like I just, I don't like, I know I was smart, but I didn't want to, for sometimes, sometimes I want to put in the work. I'm like, what's the point of this? I'm like, I'm like, for me, I'm like, I'd rather learn on the field.
Like when I'm, when there's money involved and there's like real reasons involved, like I'm focused, but like if I'm doing homework and I'm like, Oh, what's the point.
Justin: [00:07:59] Yeah, I get it. , okay. So then you went into a FMB and like were billing out your restaurant. What happened with it? how'd you get out of it?
Kelly: [00:08:08] So I was by myself. That was lesson number one. My first business, I ran by myself. Don't run business by yourself, have good partners. Cause I was just, you know, 18 hours a day, seven days a week. Um, and uh, eventually I think about two years after the restaurant, I bought a business partner on board and, um, I kind of, at the time I was just kind of over it.
And unfortunately she mismanaged, she signed my name on different documents and just, you know, kind of thing. Um, and then, um, the, the, the night, the little bar next to me was called a cat club and they sold it to a now and then it turned into this place called rock and Riley's and these guys pitched me there.
Hey, why don't we do a partnership since you don't, you know, you want to kind of move on with your life. Uh, why don't we do like, uh, you know, you have some ownership of rock and Riley's, we'll take over your restaurant. Um, and then the, the, the deal kind of got a little complicated just cause I knew business partner, I got, I bought on boar, so I was like, just buy me out.
So they ended up buying me out and then I was really happy to get out of that business. I learned a lot though, a lot learned a lot.
Justin: [00:09:12] There's nothing like that first startup or a company where you're like really on the hook and grinding and, you know, you kind of do everything wrong to like teach you a life lesson of like, how to make your way in the world. Right.
Kelly: [00:09:26] Yeah. One of the things I really learned is that life goes on, like, you know, you, somehow you have to figure out because there's, there's, you know, there's days that during payroll. You're like the next day, you're like, I have enough money to either pay rent or pay my staff. And then it's no longer just about you.
It's about, you got to figure out, I got to make sure your staff is okay. And their families. Okay. So there's a lot of pressure. And, um, yeah, but one of the things I learned is that life goes on, things work itself out.
Justin: [00:09:51] So one of the things that I, I wanted to hear more about in the show, but you didn't really go into was in like one of the first episodes you talk about, uh, how, you got married and then your husband. It turned out, was running a scam and got $150 million confiscated by the, by the government.
Can you talk about how you got there?
Kelly: [00:10:11] Yeah, that was pretty crazy. Um, I feel like that was another lifetime. So I was, uh, I was 21. He was 20th time. We met, we met in Vegas and I just always kept as a friend. Um, there's no love interest, uh, from, from me and then fast moving for, I think I was about 24. He was 23. Um, we ended up, uh, you know, meeting up and then had a really great, you know, love story.
We fell in love, we got engaged, we got married and he was, I, I respect him a lot at the time, which is because, yeah, he was an immigrant like me, you know, um, he was born in Beijing and he hustled his way from, from nothing to, you know, building at that time. For me, at least the surface, it was a very successful business.
So. Um, yeah, I, I, you know, I didn't, it was just weird that after, however, after, you know, after we, we were, we had this amazing romance marriage. I thought it was going to be with this person for the rest of my life.
And, um, we were separated because, uh, it was, you know, at that young age, I think he was trying to, I know who he is as well. There's a lot of insecurity where we're giving each other the complete different love language. You know, now that, you know, I'm learning love language and psychology, I was giving him act of service, you know, and he wanna word of affirmation, you know?
And I was giving him the last yes, because for me, I was growing up. It's like, it's like tough love in the Asian culture. It's like, you know, it's like, you give them tough love. And then he was giving me gift gifting. That was his priority. But my gift gifting was the lowest one. I was, um, it was quality time was my, was my highest. So we were just complete, just. Didn't know how to communicate. And then we didn't really talk about a lot of issues. Everything was kind of swept under the rug because in the Asian culture, we were never taught how to speak our emotions and how to voice our emotions.
Um, you know, I didn't discover this until like way later time, my thirties, but, um,he had other, other woman on the side that I later found out about. So we ended up separating. Um, and then w after we were already separated, we're going through the process of divorce.
I had a knock on my door at like 4:00 PM in the afternoon, like on a Friday. And it was like from the FTC looking for him like, Oh, he doesn't live here. I didn't even know what the FTC was at a goat, Google, my federal trade commission. What's that? And, you know, um, but yeah, this whole thing kind of is your starting rate on bailing afterwards.
And I was learning as it goes too. Cause I was reading articles and I was just completely confused. And um, you know, you know, it was a big shock where I went from and I was doing really well financially myself as well. Um, but the money I earned during the time when we're married, it we'll all go. Tingled into this lawsuit.
And so, you know, you go from spending whatever you want on your black Amex to going to the gas station. And you're like, I can't get gas, you know, how do I get gas? So, um, you know, it was a big change, but end of the day for me, cause I've, I've struggled before moving to the us. Uh, so I was, you know, like I, I know that I had to strap up and, um, downgrade and live a different lifestyle, but definitely took a while to change.
Cause even though you know that in your head, but you're going from, you know, living, you know, half a million dollars a month too. I was like, I think if my first apartment after I got everything set up, okay. My expense now is 20,000 a month. I'm like, I can do this, but then that money goes really fast. Oh my God, I got to go, go even lower.
Um, yeah, that's time also. It was weird because I consciously didn't feel like I was doing really well, but subconsciously I was having memory loss and I was dealing with stress. My body was acting out and that's when I started really learning that, you know, your body and mind and your pain kind of all connect.
Yeah. It's LA like life lessons, but, you know,
Justin: [00:13:50] That's super powerful. How did you learn that about yourself? You know, what did you, what techniques did you use to kind of cope or adapt to your new circumstances?
Kelly: [00:14:01] I didn't know how to beginning was very difficult, but obviously later on I realized meditation self-love, um, you know, self. You know, just healing and just taking a proper time off. Cause I was always go, go, go, go, go. You know, it's like, but there's times that you need to sit back, pause, relax, and then figure out the next step.
You know, I was also very lost at time. Cause I didn't really know what I want to do with my life. You know, uh, you know, at a time after going through a divorce and losing everything and you know, career wise, I was also very confused. Um, yeah, it was a huge change.
Justin: [00:14:37] And so then how did you find your way to film and production?
Kelly: [00:14:42] I think God has led me here. I have no idea. I, um, I always had a lot of friends in entertainment. And, um, you know, when, uh, I started doing, like, I did a little bit of management for like, uh, working with some music artists. And then at that time, everybody wanted their own street wear line is when OVO first came out with, cause everybody wanted to own the street wear line.
So then I ended up starting a company with my current partner, which I still have to this day. And we started building brands and building lines for different influencers and celebrities. And through that, I was able to help bring them some deals. Again, it just friends, it just more of relationships. And, um, my first official job, Ashley had the things Jason MAF or Jason at the time was a hat east-west artist.
And he was looking for somebody to, um, kind of run the day-to-day operation. And, you know, Jason, I have been friends for awhile at the time and he saw that he also, before, you know, before all of this, I was in, um, my ex-husband and me start a company called be great partners. And we were one of the first tech incubators in Los Angeles.
And we've we had, we had different funds and we invested, uh, you know, each fund invest in about 20 different companies, had a giant office on, you know, we'll assure. Uh, so Jason kind of saw, you know, my work ethic and basically how committed I am, how hardworking I am. And he knows that I have the relationships.
So he gave me that chance to, uh, come in and run his company and partner up with him. And that was really my first official entertainment job. So yeah, he he's really helped open that door for me.
Justin: [00:16:12] and tell me about like, how, how you got to producing bling empire. Like, it was your idea, right?
Kelly: [00:16:19] Yeah. So 2013, I was, I was at a meeting at UTA Ashley, and, uh, it was, uh, they were, uh, talking about this book, crazy rich Asians. I was like, what is this book? You know? So I went back and read it. I just, I absolutely loved it. Cause I was like, it's so relatable to me just because, you know, I travel so much and there's different types of single.
I had house in Singapore for two years. I'm like Singaporean, Chinese, you know, like mainland Chinese, Hong Kong, Chinese, even like some of the places they mentioned in the book, they're all, you know, real places that my friend's family owned. So I was like, Oh my God, what a great idea for an unscripted show and then start kind of putting the project together, but it took a while.
Just cause again, you know, all Asian cast, uh, we had some great people. I had some great partners. You know, with me along the ride, but none of them really worked out just cause again, networks, you know, it's, it's hard. They don't want to really take a chance on an all Asian cast. Um, and then when craziest agent came out, it just completely blew everybody away.
And then my, my phone started ringing off the hook. And at that time I already partnering up with our objection, Ken's Jeff left B memory and started his own production company.
So, um, you know, I'm just very grateful that how to partner up with him and then he sold it to Netflix, which is the best partner we can ask for just because it's such a global platform.
Justin: [00:17:33] so what is the I'm so curious, like having, you know, completely on the outside, like what's the experience of producing a reality show? Like what are the steps you have to go through to. To make it happen. You were like, there should be a show, like crazy rich Asians, you know, with these types of people.
Like how do you go from that into actually creating it?
Kelly: [00:17:51] You know, the biggest hurdle is that most people who are crazy rich, Asian is mostly a lot of family money. You know, especially at, at our age is a lot like that kind of wealth is family money, Asian culture. Doesn't like to have their family out there.
You know, they like to be very low key. You don't don't, you know, don't air your dirty laundries. So that was a really hard process. My out of the current cast, the first person that signed on with me was a King. So, you know, Kings families, very wealthy Singaporean family. So I know both his parents, so, you know, it took a while, but they gave me their blessing.
Um, and then kind of went from there. However, you know, I, you know, after I left east-west artists, I started producing full-time, but as a scripted producer, so I've produced. Televisions and movies, but script decides for this project because I wasn't going to be in front of camera. I was going to be behind the camera, but then one thing that led to another job, it's like, you know, you got you, you have to be on camera.
So when I was on camera, I had to turn that side of brain completely off. So I wasn't in any of the creatives when it comes to blinging empire, I wasn't editing room. I saw the show when everybody saw it and the whole world saw it. So I had no control of anything. Um, but I'm really grateful for that, because again, it would have been too much for me, you know, I it's better because audience are smart with reality because reality, reality show, there's no beginning, middle end.
There's not like a script. You know, you don't know where the story's going to take you, so you really have to be vulnerable. You really have to stay present. Um, so yeah, for me, I, you know, as far as how great a show turn out, it's, it's, it's completely, you know, Jeff and the shoulder on her and their team, they did all the work and they, they were in the editing room and I wasn't in it at all.
Justin: [00:19:28] did, did you have to recruit like all the cast members or did they like, were they, was that a natural group of friends or like how did, how did that come about?
Kelly: [00:19:36] You know, it's a pretty small circle in Los Angeles for, uh, you know, before like Christine I've known for over 10 years, but Jeff, Ashley recruited Christina, and then, uh, Jeff also bought Anna in as well. I didn't know Anna shade before Jeff, um, and the rest of them, it's kinda kind of from me.
Can we, um, but we all got to hang out for a good year or so before cameras start rolling. So by that time everybody's already very comfortable with each other. And I think that that's also why this cast is so great because everybody was everybody, Boston land table, everybody was vulnerable. Everybody's show things that, you know, even if I, you know, I, I knew Christine Gay for a very long time, but I didn't know a lot of the stories and the struggles they were going through until, you know, until we were filming.
So I think it actually brought a lot of us closer together.
Justin: [00:20:22] yeah, it really, people were put, put stuff out there. Like that was pretty, uh, vulnerable. And especially
Kelly: [00:20:29] had a live birth.
Justin: [00:20:33] Yeah, yeah. That was, that was a tense. I was sad. I was impressed. I was also, I was really impressed with your IVs, cause I kind of thought you were in the, you know, in the editing room or the production side as well here and like, you know, you really kind of get what vulnerable with your relationship, like live on camera.
I can't imagine what that, what that feels like.
Kelly: [00:20:52] It was difficult just because, you know, like, uh, I think, I feel like, cause every part of me was so together and then from the outside in as well, you know, being a, you know, entrepreneur, business woman, a philanthropist, everything from the outside, it looks so together where, you know, it was hard to show the, the inside where everything was falling apart.
You don't mind, your home life is normally your it's your foundation, you know, your, your home life when everything's good. You know, you're, you're, you're able to go out and do better things. For me, it was like my home life was, you know, there was a lot of great moments, but there's also a mess. Right? Of course, you know, editing, you know, three hour therapy sessions gets edited two to three minutes, you know?
So a lot of things we'll obviously we'll edit out. So, um, you know, there's also a lot of really wet, a lot of great and positive things about our, our relationship. But the show really helped me with, uh, going to therapy and really discover in therapy. Cause I've heard it, of her mental health. I've heard mental wellbeing, but I never really kind of took that step.
But. Um, during filming that's when I think that's what I got the most out of it, you know, after filming, I started doing a lot of therapy individually, and that's when I really started discovering myself. Like, I didn't realize there's so many layers for me. It was always like, Oh, this is the way I am, you know, but I never asked myself why.
And then when you're able to start, you know, basically connect with why you are the way you are to a past experience, things just aren't making sense.
Justin: [00:22:18] yeah, I found the set. That's amazing. Actually. That's such an angle that like, people probably wouldn't expect, you know, to hear like, but it's, it's an amazing, an amazing journey. And I've found that like, in my own. Journey, like the most important thing that I've ever learned in my life is like all these skills around understanding myself and like, you know, I, I went through this process over the last couple of years where I learned so much about myself from and like how things in my childhood really like played out in these patterns when I was an adult.
Uh, you know, one thing I talk about a lot on this podcast is I realize a couple of years ago that everything that I did as an adult, like trying to start companies and be an entrepreneur and, you know, be successful was all trying to just get the approval from the people around me. When I was a kid, you know, I was like playing that pattern out as an adult.
And so, you know, it was kind of never enough as I, as I layered more and more success in, you know, we sold Twitch and all this other stuff. Like I would always just be looking around the corner for what's the next thing, you know, and I never
Kelly: [00:23:16] Right, right.
Justin: [00:23:17] for me. Like, I, I never, I wasn't even aware of it.
It was just like a, kind of an algorithm going on in the background of my, you know, my mind. But, um, it wasn't until. You know, doing a lot of self work that I, I learned that in therapy was like a big part for me of like, learning about myself.
Kelly: [00:23:33] Amazing and one of the things you kind of mentioned is that, you know, um, and I, I realized that by myself, as well as a lot of Asian Americans or just Asian in general, we always have the negative core belief that we're not good enough.
It's because of, you know, the, the tiger mom syndrome growing up, you know, when I got a 90 on task, my mom, I worked so hard on, Diana says, shit, why don't you get a hundred? I'm like, but it's a, it's the same thing she goes, but you know the difference, you know, so nothing was ever good enough. Nothing was ever good enough.
So, you know, so like, I think a lot of, for me again, and when I start talking to other, other, uh, Asian Americans and Asians, it's just that we all, I realized, you know, our negative core, we haven't, we all have a similar negative core belief, which is, we feel like we're not good enough. You know? And then the, also another thing I realized is that w we were never taught the work-life balance.
You know, it was always like core, core, constant hustle, hustle, you know, study, and then go to S you know, get your masters and then go get a great job, you know, um, where, you know, your all times is as important as your on time, you know, like you need to have that balance and break. So.
Justin: [00:24:32] care of yourself as something that you never learn as a, you know, when you're most, most cultures, but especially like Asian culture. It's not, part of the script.
Kelly: [00:24:41] I was never really comfortable with myself, like being by myself until like literally early last year, 2020. I mean, this is very recent. So that was also why I think I had a lot of codependency issues. I was always trying to help other people. I was never bothered. What I want to do is always like, how can I help the other person?
I would drop anything just to, you know, and also another thing is that same thing with, I, I had a problem saying no, like, like, you know, if somebody wants me to go somewhere for a birthday for dinner, I always say yes. And I always realm myself. I get dressed so many directions and I was, you know, gets hired.
And I'm like, wait saying, no, is this an important saying, yes, I want to help everybody, but it's never, I never really slowed down, but what do I want? You know, like, it's okay. If I don't want to go to these things, they'll understand, you know, but like, yeah, exactly. Like you said,
Justin: [00:25:27] How did you learn, uh, to set those boundaries and kind of prioritize yourself?
Kelly: [00:25:32] Therapy reading. And I think, you know, um, obviously the pandemic is, you know, played a part in it just cause everything stopped. And, um, I was just running myself. Then I was taking a lot of courtesy meetings meetings. And even with those courtesy meetings, I'm like, Oh no, don't worry. I'll drive to you. You know?
Cause I just want to make other people's lives easier. And um, you know, when everything's slowed down and I just really, there's not much to do other than at that time also, I was by myself, I was single. So for the kind of living by myself and really just have to, you know, occupy your time.
And then when I. And then, you know, I realized there's so much information, there's so much knowledge and books online and podcasts, YouTube, you know, I never had time for that. I was always just go, go, go, go. I never had time. So I'm just seeking out knowledge learning. And I feel like for the first time I started quote unquote learning again, learning more but different side of my brain, you know?
Um, and therapy. Yeah. Therapy books, just so much knowledge out there. And so that's a great thing about internet nowadays.
Justin: [00:26:35] I know. So what were some of the, books or YouTubes or, you know, kind of information sources that really stuck out to you?
Kelly: [00:26:43] I read this book hall and I asked him going through a program. I'm still going through a, her name's Jody Rosenberg, Dr. Jody Rosenberg. She has a book copy the cause it's basically breaks down. It has a, um, Has nine panels in a, in a chart. And then the nine panels is really about your path and how you were, you were rerouted, right?
And in the present, how, when you go chaos, you go to defense, you, you, you act out and the how to reroute your brain. So that really made sense to me because, you know, before I went to therapy, like, well, tell me about yourself. And there's just no course plan. And I'm very like, I'm a structural person. Like I like things that's like logical, so it really kind of broke.
And then when I had the visual, you know, effect that, um, Jim Quick's limitless, I thought was phenomenal. That book was so great, but how the train your brain and, uh, you know, your brains, some muscle and how to, how to practice and work at it. I also read this book called the daughter list project, which talks about talks about women and they lost their father.
So that was also very. Enlightening for me just because I didn't really think that that incident where my dad left really affected me. Cause I'm, you know, like I was kind of closed off. I kind of was blocking myself. So I, I really didn't think it cause I, I didn't act out. Right. I kind of suppress my feelings, but so I didn't realize how much to affects me.
And I was when I was reading it and I just realized all the, you know, all the things in there, it's like, you know, fatherless daughter tend to stay in a relationship a lot longer than it should. You know, they tend to have low self confidence. They have abandonment issue. I was like, Oh my God, they're not that comfortable with myself.
I was like, check, check, check, check. And I'm like, Oh my God. You know? So just learning all that stuff. And also, you know, this old, almost 50% of fatherless thoughts and the having fatherless daughters. So it's a, you know, it's, they don't because they don't know it's, it's a trend that they Pat path on. So, um, that was super interesting to me.
So yeah, I was just those, those bullets just reading and it's just, it's amazing.
Justin: [00:28:40] Yeah. you mentioned, um, meditation earlier. Do you practice meditation?
Kelly: [00:28:46] I don't do as regular as I really should. Um, but meditation is gray. It's. It disconnect. Um, I'm, I'm still getting better at it. Um, it's, it's been a journey because I started, I started exploring meditation, you know, that's small, like Hm. Like seven years ago. I think, you know, I had a, you know, I had a coach and I would do, uh, I listened, I listened to like, I use Headspace or insight right now.
Um, I try to do it at least five to 10 minutes a day. Um, but something that I, I for sure need to explore more.
Justin: [00:29:20] Yeah. One thing about meditation was, I mean, I'm pretty new to meditation too. Probably the last couple of years, uh, practicing regular for the last couple of years, but it really helped me be okay with being alone. Like I used to like really not be okay with downtime. Like I would always want my brain to be occupied.
I look at my phone all the time. I would be at my computer, like if I had to read something like, you know, and when I started meditating after the first six months, I was like, Oh, okay. I'm okay. At first I was super bored. You know, I was like, I want to, um, I want to stop, like after one minute, you know, it'd be like checking the time to see how much time elapsed.
But after a couple months, then I started to realize, Oh, I can just be okay. And like with nothing happening or like, you know, awkward silence or just being alone or, you know, without being, without any sort of stimulation. And that was really revolutionary to me because I had, I don't think I was okay like that for like years, you know, decades.
Kelly: [00:30:21] the stillness. There's a book called the surrender experience. I don't know if you, if you want to write a check that out. It's yeah. Great book. It's such a great book. Yeah. And that, that was kind of, I think the first book I read about meditation and, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's so great.
It's the stillness and we especially, you know, with our society right now, there's just so much going on all the time. There's a lot of, you know, visual simulations and all that stuff. So yeah. I, I love that. And, and it's for sure, you know, same thing with kind of on your journey to I'm. I need to do more of it's for sure that I need to, you know, keep practicing.
Justin: [00:30:53] Awesome. And the, the thing you were saying about your phone actually reminded me of something that I also, uh, I've been bad at it recently, but I used to do, which was, I deleted all the social media apps off my phone and actually my email and pretty much all like the distracting apps, all e-commerce apps.
And I have, I locked it so that. My wife had the password to install apps. So, because I was a super phone addict, like I was looking at my phone at dinner and like when other people were around, like, it was very compulsive. Um, and so I like deleted everything and that kind of gave me a lot of enforced stillness, you know, times when I like, just couldn't look at my phone, entertain myself when I was in an Uber or something, I just have to sit there in the backseat and like, look out the window, you know?
Kelly: [00:31:33] Yeah, I tried that, you know, this whole thing, like, you know, it's turn off all your notifications, so you don't get any notification. I tried it. And also, I also try to turn my phone into the, you know, the gray color, whereas no color at all. I just, I couldn't deal with it. I turn it back on afterwards. But, but you're right when you're sitting in a car and one of the most awkward thing I remember was I think there's one, I forgot my phone.
I was meeting somebody for coffee and they were late. And I was just like, what do I do? Like, I would just like so awkward sitting there, like it would just, it was just felt so uncomfortable, but then that's also, you realize you're like, you know, the phone runs our life, but sometimes they don't, they, they run our lives and we have to kind of stop they're programming us, you know?
Justin: [00:32:13] exactly. It is. I mean, it is like tech, you know, tech is really figuring out ways to program us into it. Like you said, into doing kind of what the companies want to do. I mean, I've been on the other side of that and, you know, I think it's, it is creating like an unhealthy habit loop in a lot of ways.
I actually remember, you know, you brought up like waiting for someone. I was in doing a meeting with, um, someone who was in Hollywood actually. And I was like, I'm there. And they were like super late. Like they were. You're probably like 30 minutes late, but it was like, I was kinda like, this is like typical LA shit, whatever, you know, I'm gonna like, not be pissed off.
And so I actually just sat there and I didn't have my phone, you know, my phone was like all locked down or whatever. So I couldn't, you know, I was like, I'll just sit here and be patient and meditate. And I was doing that and it turns out they had like, came out, came out to the lobby and looked for me.
But I was like, kind of just sitting there, like not paying attention, you know, just like in my own meditation zone. And so they thought I wasn't even there. And so after like 40 minutes, I think that we finally connected, but you know that the downside of maybe like not, not being on your phone.
Kelly: [00:33:17] But that's kinda cool. Cause you're just, you're just not bothered by other people's laziness or whatever you you're centered. You're just doing your own thing, which I, I, I think that's pretty cool.
Justin: [00:33:26] Yeah. Yeah. It was,
Kelly: [00:33:27] They made you wait.
Justin: [00:33:33] it was funny actually to compare the experience because I remember having had the same experience also in LA of course, uh, like. You know, five, six years prior and being super pissed. I was like, who the fuck is this guy? He's like making me sit outside and like, you know, wait in the lobby for like, I dunno, 40 minutes or whatever.
And then this time, you know, I was like completely okay with it. Is that the surrender experience? I guess.
Kelly: [00:33:57] this mentor experience. That's really cool. Jason, also, I want to ask you a question. How was your, I know you did Justin TV before you did your own reality. How was your experience with that?
Justin: [00:34:06] I mean, it was, it was funny and crazy. I mean, we were not entertaining. Right. And you you've produced film and TV before, so
Kelly: [00:34:14] but you're almost a start, like when you did that, that was the start of reality television, you know? So, I mean, yeah. I had to say you probably wanted to vendors though, right? Reality television.
Justin: [00:34:24] it was, I guess it, it kind of was at that beginning. Like we were doing it in 2007, but what we didn't know, which we could have had, we spent any time in the entertainment industry is like, In order to get, like you said, one minute out of a therapy session or two minutes, you need to film three hours to get like two good minutes.
Right. And for us, like, you know, we were filming one minute per minute that we broadcast. And so it was incredibly boring, right? Like, um, I just be walking around or on my, you know, on my phone or like on the, you know, on my computer and talking to a friend, like even the conversations were that good. So, you know, people came and they, they were just not entertained and they, they balanced, but it was a fun experience because it was kind of like being catapulted into this, you know, star semi stardom, like from overnight, because people were just so like weirded out by the whole thing.
They were like, why would anyone want to do that? And then, you know, people came and checked out our, our stream and mostly they left, uh,
Kelly: [00:35:23] But that's so cool though. That's very innovative. It's kinda like you had your own Truman show or, uh, Oh, what's that? What's um, what's that movie with Matthew McConaughey and where he was a cast. It MTV. Yeah. You had your own to ed TV. That's pretty cool. I think it's very innovative.
Justin: [00:35:36] It was funny because, you know, after we, we, we started Justin TV. We actually didn't watch ed TV before, but we had watched it like probably a couple of nights before we broadcast. And we started our, we were like gonna relaunch our show and at TV it's in San Francisco, they did a lot of the stuff that like we were planning on doing.
And we were like, no, one's ever gonna believe we came up with this idea ourselves. They're going to think, because it was like, basically the same as that TV.
Kelly: [00:36:01] Okay. I didn't know. I didn't know the timeframe of your came up for us when the movie came out, I think. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Justin: [00:36:06] was first, but it was, it was pretty, it was pretty funny. That was, that was a fun moment, but it was also because it was live and it was on the internet.
It was like very stressful. Like people pranked us all the time. They like call the cops on us, like everywhere I'd go with, there'd be like people delivering pizzas. Like they would call pizza delivery, like to our, you know, every place that I went. Like if I went to a restaurant, they would order pizzas there or went to a friend's house or, or whatever.
So. It got to be like a little bit chaotic.
Kelly: [00:36:34] Wow. That's so interesting. Okay. Never knew that. That's awesome. Wow.
Justin: [00:36:39] Yeah. I think like, you know, you have to, in order to do reality TV, like it wasn't a new format. I think the spiritual successor of that format actually is like Instagram stories and Snapchat stories where, um, you know, my, my kind of core observation, this was like before social media happened, actually, it was kind of right when social media was starting, like right when Twitter was starting.
And my insight was, people are interested in other people it's kind of the same insight as reality TV. You don't have to be like, you know, it, it doesn't have to be, uh, a movie or like something scripted. People are just curious about other people and that's like the natural human condition. And so if you give people a window into someone's life, they're going to be interested in it.
And that's like how reality TV works. Right. And it's also how. I think it's, you know, the stories function and kind of social media in general works. And so we had that insight, but we just, the implementation was awful. Right. Cause like the, we weren't showing people really the interesting highlights. We were just showing them like everything, which is not interesting.
And so, um, if we were smarter, we would have invented like Snapchat or something or Instagram, but instead we,
Kelly: [00:37:44] I'm sure that was still a really great experience though. You know, something you've probably learned a lot from, and, you know, and got to where you are to got to where you are today.
Justin: [00:37:52] was kind of like your experience building a restaurant, right? Cause it was like incredibly stressful. We were always running out of money and then eventually we pivoted it to a platform for any anyone to broadcast. Like we were like, okay, our show sucks. And it's not that funny.
And, but other people were coming in, they were saying, Hey, how can I, how are you doing this? You know? Cause there was no YouTube live at the time. There was no Instagram live. So we were like, okay, let's let anybody broadcast. And then we open it up. Um, to the whole, like, world to broadcast, and then that became this platform.
And then from there, that's what turned into Twitch actually.
Kelly: [00:38:23] It's amazing.
Justin: [00:38:24] Yeah. So it was a,
Kelly: [00:38:25] It's amazing. So it's just like, you know, every failure or every, not even failure, but every business I needed to work out, it leads to something else and then leads to, until you hit something big. So it's, it's so great. It's amazing.
Justin: [00:38:36] Yeah. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. Life is, you know, you never know how something is going to impact your life until you, you experience it. You know,
Kelly: [00:38:45] Yeah, yeah,
Justin: [00:38:46] pandemic, like you were saying is, is this gift in a way for you to learn about yourself right. And have time for, you know, kind of enforced space for yourself.
Kelly: [00:38:54] yeah, absolutely it definitely forced me to slow down. I was, yeah, I was running crazy. I was just running on like empty every single day and until the pandemics, you know, and, and just really learn forced for me to slow down was it's been a very positive so far.
Justin: [00:39:09] Yeah. That's, that's fascinating So a, you know, an issue that has been top of mind for, for a lot of my friends, uh, for myself. And, uh, I did a talk on Twitch recently with the members of the Twitch team about it, like tell us what's going on with the, Asian hate crime wave that's happening in the U S
Kelly: [00:39:27] I'm just really happy right now. There's more awareness to it. That's number one. Um, it's because, you know, during the summer, when, you know, when the old grandma got set on fire in Brooklyn, you know, there's only a couple of us really posting about it. And we were really only, you know, that also the time, you know, I didn't have it that big of a platform.
Um, and majority people didn't hear about it, you know, and now that, you know, because of the more and more cases are happening and there's still new cases, every single day, they, you know, is 1900% increase. Report it in 2020, but that's only reported because again, in the Asian culture, we don't like to talk about things even sometime, you know, I was listening to this talk that I think it was the, uh, New York has a special attack team that specialize in Asian hate crimes.
They will go to victim's house and they don't want to speak. They don't know, I'll speak to the police. They don't want to speak to the reporter. Cause, uh, you know, it's, uh, you know, the Asian culture you don't want to, you don't want to bring attention to dissolve it. Don't make waves. Don't, don't speak up.
You don't want to bring attention. You, you, you rather, and I think it's also a little bit of pride, you know, to it. So, um, again, just a report, a case, a hundred percent increase just from 2020 of Asian hate crimes. And, um, now that you know, I'm just really happy. There's more awareness because we're ness.
It's obviously the first step, right? Um, when I posted a series of videos on my Instagram, majority, people were like, this was happening. I didn't realize it was happening. This is crazy. Um, so, you know, but again, it's, it's going to be a long movement. It's not something that we can change overnight. And again, Asian hate crime.
Didn't just start last year. It's it's been going on. Um, and you know, but we need to look at the media stuff. We'll just make sure, you know, our elders are safe, walking home to, um, to awareness, uh, education, as well as you know, I think so offering, uh, mental wellness, programs, just so people they can talk about it.
Um, and then it goes to, you know, as big as, you know, maybe policy change and putting the right people in office. But, um, you know, we all we can do just the step by step, and then it's still early on the movement. I just hope, uh, you know, more and more people will be aware of it and do something about it.
Justin: [00:41:31] what, what do you think is causing this? It's a pretty tremendous spike, right? 19 acts in like a year. What, what do you think is causing that? Like that just kind of a taxing as a community.
Kelly: [00:41:43] I think a big part of it was Trump. You know, uh, the Chinese virus, I have listened to his press conference pretty much every morning when the, when the first pandemic started. Cause there's just not, you know, 9:00 AM, I'm turning on the news. And, uh, when reporters are asking about, you know, about why he causes the, the, the, the Chinese virus and why he, um, and they will also bring to the tension about these hate crimes, that's going on, you know, he just, he doesn't really answer it.
He kind of talks in circles that he, he rerouted, um, I think leadership, And also, I think there's just, there's a lot of hurt in the world right now. And they want to redirect that into, to something else. Right. They want to, and then the easy target might just be the Asian-Americans because, you know, because that's the easy way to target it, but it's a lot to do with their own self.
Um, you know, they're not happy, they're hurt with what's going on. Um, some of them are losing jobs and losing their houses and not able to feed their kids. So, you know, it's, it's a cycle and, um, you know, it's an a day we can't, we have to try to just spread more love and, humanity, that's just as a human.
That's not, that's not what we do, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what color we are just as human beings, we shouldn't hurt each other.
Justin: [00:42:54] Yeah, that's a beautiful message. I love that. one thing I wanted to ask you about was, you know, the, feature of, of Asians in media, because you're like, I feel like blinging empire, it's like crazy rich Asians. It was this watershed moment where after crazy rotations, it was like, Which I, I love that movie, but it was like, kind of just like a normal romcom movie.
It wasn't like an Oscar winning movie or anything, but it just exploded. And cause every Asian-American person I knew was like support wanting to support it. Like all my friends were buying out theaters for it. And then I feel like blink empire is like another kind of similar event where everybody I know was watching it.
You know, people who don't love reality, like we hate reality TV where we're watching it. And so like what, where does it go from here?
Kelly: [00:43:40] You know, I think with the Asian than we were, Asians were very, very, very underrepresented in, in Hollywood, in the media. Right. And so again, all we can do is just project by project. You know, for us, it's only empire in order for bland empire to be a successful as it was for season one. And having that platform.
You know, we have the think crazy Asians, you know, fresh off the boat. Uh, even Kim's convenience store, which is up in Canada, they did up in Canada, all these projects that paved the way for us. Right. And just, but there's never been a reality shows. So we're hoping that, you know, with Glen empire, it's another John era for people to watch.
And, um, hopefully we'll pave the way for other, all Asian cast because you know, Hollywood still business, you know, and the day there it's always like, well, if I put all Asian cast, am I really going to make my money back? Or there's no real Asian actors who is bankable in foreign sales, blah, blah, blah. But we're also showing because of the success of these projects, we're showing Hollywood.
Asians are, is a business you invest in us. We are, we, we can, we can make money. We have power. We have, we have community. Um, so I think all these projects are really great. And then again, hopefully with, uh, Bling Empire, it's just another genre to open more doors and just pave the way for another all Asian cast.
Justin: [00:45:00] I love that. I love that. I'd also love to see casts that weren't necessarily all Asian, but just like have a lot of Asians who are not playing like the token role, you know?
Kelly: [00:45:10] exactly. Cause you know, the token role of, you know, Asians always like Kung Fu you know, there's all like martial arts stuff, but I want to see a leading Asian men play, you know, have a love story with, uh, you know, with different, different ethnicity as you as well. You know, kind of like Henry Golding did that movie called.
A symbol, a symbol favorite? No favor. I think. Yeah, not my, not, not, not my favorite movie, but it was just great seeing him playing a leading role, you know? Um, so yeah, just, we, we got to, we got to, um, invest and invest our resources, invest our money behind Asian talent. And again, it's not just in front of cameras, right behind the cameras too.
Like, you know, with Chloe, uh, Zelle being the first ever female Asian director winning these awards and like all this stuff is so great, you know, Lulu Wang for farewell last year. Um, we have to invest in our, um, invest in these talents because there, a lot of them are so talented, you know, and just really kind of put our resources and, and money and, and, um, you know, just make some noise, you know?
So, so behind, in front of camera talents, yes. But as well as behind the camera talent,
Justin: [00:46:22] I love that. So, uh, I'd love to finish up with, uh, bringing in Jenny who's, on our discord server. And we usually let her ask a few questions from the audience
Kelly: [00:46:31] Awesome. Hi, Jenny.
Jenny: [00:46:33] Hey Kelly. So I'm the quest fellow working with Justin on the episode? I was just wondering, so having grown up in an Asian community, there's always been a lot of success comparison with like classmates, family, friends, and even siblings. Um, so I was wondering with you having been a talent manager and a producer, do you feel like there's some sort of.
Almost like cannibalism within the Asian community. Like, is there more competition or support amongst yourselves? Um, and then, you know, within American and Asian grown talent, um, I think as a model, I've kind of felt some of this at castings. Um, so I'm wondering how do you handle it?
Kelly: [00:47:09] Yeah, it's so funny. You asked that because it is true when you're growing up. You know, my mom's always like, you know, my friend's kids did this, this says they went to this, this school, they're going to, they're doing this. They got number one in their piano recital, whatever it is. And you know, that's why it's, it's kinda, it's a very unhealthy competitiveness.
I think, you know, I think there's healthy way of fun, you know, to, uh, when you compete. But at the same time we have to support each other, you know, and same thing with all Asians and woman is sometime, you know, also with women, they tend to, uh, they like to, they're very competitive and it brings insecurity, but in a day, like we need to lift each other up, you know, by us working together by us coming together, um, and lifting each other up.
We're going to get a lot further. You know, that's also why, you know, a lot, I, I'm a huge, you know, I speak a lot about women empowerment, um, you know, empowered women, empower women because again, we, we need to stand together. We need to lift each other up. Um, you know, that you can't, you can't drag yourself down, just got to keep lifting other people up by you lifting other people up.
It's also going to lift yourself up as well.
Jenny: [00:48:08] Yeah, for sure.
Justin: [00:48:09] that's
Jenny: [00:48:10] are we good on time, Justin? Do I have one more spicy question, Kelly?
Kelly: [00:48:15] Okay.
Jenny: [00:48:17] I'll shoot my shot. Um, so a lot of the headlines, I think like if you do a Google, um, or about you and Andrew's relationship, um, but I think like having seen a lot of your interviews, I know you're super career on career oriented, like crazy boss lady.
How do you feel about that?
Kelly: [00:48:33] Um, you know, I think it's. Uh, you know, it's funny because when we first started shooting Bling empire, it was like, the story was always going to be more focused on my work. But then my relationship with Andrew completely took over the whole series and they cut most of my work stuff out, but, you know, people want to watch what they want to watch.
Um, you know, with Andrew and I breaking up, I, we, we did a joint, you know, statement cause I, I, you know, I, I re I have a tremendous amount of respect and love for him. It just, it's just not right for, you know, for both of our lives. I think that right now, um, you know, I can't really control it for me. I always leave in focus on what you want to control, same thing with, you know, what you want to amplify the message you want to amplify.
So for me, I did that message and I'm just gonna leave it as it is. Um, same thing with, you know, when on Instagram people arrive shitty comments and bad comments, you know, but again, I don't, I don't respond to the negative comments because I'm like, why bring intention and bring more of my energy to the negative.
But I w I'm happy to amplify positive messages because for me, I just want to, you know, I want to spread love. I want to spread the positivity.
Justin: [00:49:39] Love that.
Well, Kelly, that's it. Thanks for, thanks for joining me. That was an amazing conversation.
Kelly: [00:49:43] Thank you, Justin. My pleasure. So I've been a fan of yours for a long time, and I've been following your career. So I'm just very, I'm very honored to be here
Justin: [00:49:50] appreciate it. I appreciate that. And I'm honored that you, you know, now that you're in the kind of not just saying yes to everything that you would still make the time to talk to me. That's awesome.
Kelly: [00:49:58] Anytime.
Justin: [00:50:02] All right. That was my conversation with Kelly. Some takeaways from this episode. Number one, try to pave the way for others with your work. Like Kelly said, the reason that Bling Empire was so successful was because of predecessors like Crazy Rich Asians or Fresh Off the Boat. And Bling Empire is going to open even more doors for Asians in media. So we should all spend some time appreciating those who came before us and paving the way with our work for those following in our footsteps.
Number two, learn to be alone with yourself. Now this is a super important skill. Kelly was a hustler, but that 24 seven hustling mentality did not help her with their wellness practice. It was when she learned to say no and spend time with herself that she was able to free up a lot more headspace and that's helped her keep going and not burn out. Learning to be alone with yourself is so important. And it's something that if you want to go far in this world, you need to master.
Number three, cutting your burn rate isn't as scary as it sounds. All of us have been trained by the world to think that more is better, but that is false. And you can always live below your means. Kelly cut her burn rate from a half million dollars every month to 20,000, which to be honest is still a lot. And that's like a 96% decrease. If she can do it, you can do it too. I promise.
So if you liked this episode, drop us a rating on Apple podcasts and bang that five stars. Please also comment what you've learned, I love to read the comments, shout out to Jenny, uh, the quest fellow from our Discord server that helped with this podcast.
You can apply to be a fellow and check out all things Quest at listen.justin.quest. And next week we've got Eric Nam, Korean sensation, K-pop star performer, entertainer and entrepreneur - really excited to bring him onto the show. And I will see you guys next Tuesday.